“We refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt.”

Black and White and Thin Blue Lines is an original podcast created by two former police officers, Serge Antonin and Clarke Ahlers, who are inspired by the hopeful words of the  Reverend Martin Luther King. Serge Antonin is African American. Clarke Ahlers is Caucasian.

About the Podcast

       The first phrase of the podcast title “Black and White” is intended as an ironic double entendre. The first and obvious reference is to race. In the phrase, Serge is the “black” and Clarke is the “white.” But the phrase “black and white” often refers to a choice where one decision is obviously correct and one decision is obviously wrong. The irony intended by Serge and Clarke is that very little about the work of justice is simply black and white; the world is full of “gray.”

       The second phrase modifies the idea that police are the “thin blue line” of civilization. Serge and Clarke refer to the phrase in plural as “thin blue lines.” This acknowledges that even within law enforcement there are emerging, ever-changing, and even contradictory ideas, tactics, police practices and rules of operation reflecting strong differences of opinion.

We invite you to listen, enjoy and become better informed. 

Our Commitment to You

We promise to respect each other and you, our audience.
We promise to seek first to understand, then to be understood.
We promise to help the listener access information that affirms and disputes our points of view so that the listener can enjoy a more informed, but independent, point of view.
We promise to be open to changing our minds on important matters when we are persuaded that another point of view is better supported, more rational, and more just.